This course will explore the unique experience of the woman writer. Studying works written by women from a variety of cultures, races and classes will reveal how being a woman has influenced the woman writer's creative interpretation of the human condition.
Thursday, March 12, 2015
Blog #2 "No Name Woman," "Desiree's Baby"
How do both these stories explore family and culture as bearers of patriarchal traditions? Quote or cite from one particular passage as evidence.
Both families have different believes within their patriarchal traditions in No Name Women the father believed that his sister was a disgrace to the family not only because she was married and had a child out of wedlock but it was because is was a disgrace to his family and village and in Désirée’s baby Armand who was father and husband abandoned his family due to the color of his child’s skin he was in disbelief and bashed his wife into believing that she acted in the sin of adultery which is the highlight of both stories although Désirée never committed adultery Armand was actually not who he thought he was his whole life, he lived a life about who he was.
No Name Women – by Maxine Hong Kingston
The daughter’s mother told her about her father’s sister before she died and what caused her to die, she told her about a gruesome story about his sister because her daughter was getting her menstrual cycle. She recalled about his family including the aunt and her new husband and how they all sailed to America, the Gold Mountain. It was their grandfathers last trip, at that time they had to get contracts to go and say bye. One day he saw his sister dressing and he seen she her stomach looked like other pregnant women. He couldn’t understand because her husband has been gone for years. The villagers visited them one night, and they slaughtered their animals and ripped through there home after the sister given birth. She and the baby were seen plugging up in the family well. The father went his whole life not once mentioning her sister, he never wanted to be looked down upon nor humiliated. But as the mother was informing her daughter about this information to compare it to her daughter she tried to make a point as to why she should not have sex in wed lock nor commit adultery.
Désirée’s Baby – by Kate Chopin
Désirée was the wife of Armand, she states, and “Marriage, and later birth of his son had soften Armand Aubigny’s imperious and exacting nature greatly.” This statement gives us a glance that Armand was happy for the baby until the baby became darker then both Désiré and Armand. Armand behavior changed, which she dared not to explain. When he spoke to her, it was with averted eyes, from which the old love-light seemed to have gone out. Armand ended up walking out on his family, he rather take dealings with the slaves. Armand was disgraced about the color of baby boy he couldn’t understand how his son could be so dark. He believed that his wife had committed the act of adultery because he couldn’t understand how his son was so dark. He did not even think to that he himself is also a dark man but his features where not resembled as (the enslaved slaves) in his mind.
Both families have a different prospective about patriarchal traditions. In "No name women" the father believed that his sister is a disgrace to the whole family not only because she's married but she had a child out of wedlock so he believes she committed adultery and she was an embrassament to the whole village and in "Desiree Baby" Armand leaves his wife and son because his son's skin color was different. He beilved that his wife committed adultery which we can say flows well with both stories. In "Desiree Baby" Desiree is Armand wife and she says " Marriage, and later the birth of his son had soften Armand Aubigny's imperious and exacting nature greatly." Here we can tell that Armand was happy about the birth of his son but then Armand changed with wife because the baby became darker and he questioned why because he wasn't dark. But in the end he finds a letter that his mother wrote to his father and it say "Night and day, I thank the good god for having so arranged out lives that our dear Armand will never know that his mother, who adores him, belongs to the race that is cursed with the brand of slavery." This is something that Armand would imagine and now he knows we're he comes from and who he really is. As in "no name women" the mother explains to her daughter why her aunt can't be mention in there family and why she died and it was like she never was born or hear of. Now her daughter is starting to menstruate and warns here daughter that she shouldn't commit adultery or have sex out of wedlock because then she would be a disgrace to the family as well.
A tradition is no longer so, if it is not carried out or reinforced by the particular culture or family, and here, in both “Desiree’s baby” by Kate Chopin and “no name woman” by Maxine Hong Kingston, A patriarchal tradition is cemented into the lives of the participants in the story.
In Chopin’s “Desiree’s baby”, the male superiority is blatantly obvious in the fact that, as abruptly as Armand Aubigny falls in love with Desiree, He, with the same haste and selfishness, decides to marry her without much care of her say in the matter. Although over the course of the short marriage she grew to love him, her state of mind was always swayed greatly by Armand, depicting a clear male dominance in the family. “when he frowned she trembled, but loved him. When he smiled, she asked not greater blessing of god.” (p14) This sort of patriarchy not only existed within them but was pretty common for even when Armand was reading his mother’s letter to his father, “she had been thanking god for the blessing of her husband’s love” (pg16), as to place her husband on a higher ground than her own being. And ofcourse Armand’s quick dismissal of desiree after realizing that she was not completely white, indicated the sole authority he held in the family.
Kingston in “no name woman” portrays the same idea of patriarchy through the depiction of the culture that defined the necessary decorum expected of everyone in the particular society, here, a very particular village in china where her ancestors lived. With the story of her aunt who had jumped in the well with the baby, Kingston shows of how much woman were ostracized if they acted out of accordance from the will of the patriarchal society. Through her conjectures on the proceedings of it, Kingston tries to give life to her dead aunt who had been condemned to having not existed at all, even within the family. “He denies her…You wouldn’t like to be forgotten as if you had never been born. The villagers are watchful.” This depicts the sort of cautionary life a female has to live not only during the time her aunt lived but also how it still perpetuates into kingston’s life.
Our families and culture gives us traditions and beliefs, which we in turn follow and behave accordingly to. And both “No Name Woman” by Maxine Hong Kingston and “Desiree’s Baby” by Kate Chopin, show us that in a society with Patriarchal Traditions women are often looked at differently and punished more severely for a “crime” they committed than that of a man, because men are looked at as the ones that are always “Right”. In “No Name Woman” by Maxine Hong Kingston we see a family who disowns one of its most loved members, “She may have been unusually beloved, the precious only daughter, spoiled and mirror gazing because of the affection the family lavished on her. When her husband left, they welcomed the chance to take her back from the in-laws; she could live like the daughter for just a while longer”. This statement alone tells us how much she was loved. But because of her becoming pregnant even though she had not seen her husband for years, the family disowns her without even getting the full story, they knew nothing of her circumstances and how she became pregnant and did not give her a chance to explain herself. All they were concerned with was the fact that she shamed the family, she disrespected the family. And this shows us that in a patriarchal society women are hardly given the chance for “forgiveness” as men are. Also in ““Desiree’s Baby” by Kate Chopin, we see how Patriarchal traditions shape the mindset of the younger generations. We see that Armand is in love with his wife and loves his baby boy; but as the baby started to get darker as he got older Armand fell out of love with his wife. ‘ “It means,” he answered lightly, “ that the child is not white; it means that you are not white” ’ Armand grew up with one mentality about Africans and when he saw that his child was beginning to become like them he quickly fell out of love for his wife and blamed her. And as we later find out his own mom was African and that is why his child was turning darker; but he had blamed his wife and sent her away. In both these stories we see that women born into a Patriarchal Society, where men think they are always right and women should always reply with “Yes, Sir” attitudes, are easily second class citizens and are rarely given first class treatment.
In the short stories “No Name Woman” and “Desiree” both of the females generate a conflict due to the birth a child. In both short stories the mother is at fault. The deviousness of the men who passes on their own faults to the women. Even though the women could of stand up for themselves and prove otherwise, they stood loyal to the men to the every end. In "No Name Woman" the child is the result of adultery. Which brought humiliation to everyone in the family. In "Desiree's Baby" the baby, carried African genes, which was known to be the most shameful thing to everyone.
In "No Name Woman" the narrator's aunt had sexual relations, she doesn’t tell anyone whether it was consensual or not, with someone other then her husband. Her husband was working and she became pregnant while he was away. She never tells anyone how she became pregnant, even after the villagers destroy the family’s property. Her aunt committed suicide to end all misery for her family and to protect the mystery man.
In “Desiree Baby”, the mother Desiree was dropped off on a doorstep when she was very young. Her son was born with African descents and she was told she had to be the carrier of African genes, since her background is unknown. Her husband Armand made her vanish because she will bring shame to his family. His reputation was important to him and having a half black child would be a disgrace. Once Desiree disappeared, her husband found out he was the one with the African genes.
Patriarchies are in both short stories. Because of the men in the story the women are defeated and even though they suffered they stood devoted till the every end.
In "Desiree's Baby" Desiree's child was born with African blood, Armand (who was part African but didn't know at the time) had a problem because he felt that she kind of in a way betrayed him because he was under the impression that Desiree was White. He Kicked her and her child out because he knew that the community would have judged him for having a child who is part African. This story bearers of patriarchal traditions because, the man of the family decided just because the baby isn't one hundred percent white they was no longer any good to him.
In "No Name Women" In China during when the story was taken place, it was shameful to have a child out of wedlock so, the no name women killed herself and baby because they felt such shame from the village she lived in. As the mother tells the story of the no name women, she's tells her that that she is called the no named women because what she did, made her to believe that she ever existed. This short story shows that family and culture plays a big part in the patriarchal traditions because if you bring shame the "man" you can no longer be apart of the family anymore because they would disown you.
In both stories you see the patriarchal side of the men which puts you in shock and disbelief of the way they handle situations within their families. But I agree with what you were saying i got the same concept from both stories.
In both texts, they explore the patriarchal views of society in their time. The importance of your culture, family and growth is rather important. In No name woman, the aunt brought shame to the family because of her actions and with that was punished and she in turn committed suicide. The village looked on this act as sinful and disgraceful in which they believed she had brought the evil and poverty to the village.
In Desiree's Baby, this focused on the race and ethnicity of the child. The husband who was once happy started to resent not only his wife but his child as well. For him, them not being considered of royalty and pure blood was a shame and disgrace. However, in the end of all this, the husband had no idea he was the one with the African blood and roots and not the wife, but instead he was the one mixed with both bloods.
Both stories are similar in the way in which they expose the patriarchal form of governing in a society. Teaching us that what the men think of a woman has a greater value and a lot more weight than the woman's actions. In other words, women don't have any room to be themselves or simply just to be. Kingston's story, "No Name Woman" shows how harshly women are judged not only by men but by other women as well. In the story, this only leads to the suicide of the aunt who was humiliated, shamed and blamed for every bad thing that happened in the village. Suggesting that if a woman does not follow the rules established by men, then she becomes a disgrace, a curse for her own self. In Chopin's story, the same principles are reflected, only that they now imply that a woman's sexuality has a lot more value than her honest actions. In addition to that, if a woman is to betray or be disloyal to her husband not only is she ruining her reputation but polluting her husband's honor which is a lot more important than the cause of the betrayal. Here, the feelings a woman has are unimportant and the judgments are still as cruel. Both stories show the dehumanizing ways in which women are judged, but at the same time the ways in which they are expected to live.
These two stories both shared some similarities of patriarchy, and the way things are handled within families/communities in relation to the acts a woman takes. In "No Name Woman", the aunt seemed committed to the marriage strayed from her husband and gave birth to another man's child. She committed suicide/homicide because of the shame that was brought on to her by her village. In this culture, women are sold like property to other families which signifies the position women hold in a patriarchy. They hold little to no position because if they deviate in any way from being a traditional woman of that culture, they are punished and forever shamed.
In the story "Desiree's Baby", a similar concept follows. A couple that is in love give birth to a child and because of that culture, where black people were considered slaves, the father/husband disowned the child and wife that he first fell in love with. He didn't want to shame his name with a child who "belongs to a race that is cursed with the brand of slavery." His wife disappeared with the child because of the shame she felt, but like the aunt in "No Name Woman" she would not leave her baby. In the end it was not Desiree who was at fault for a black child, it was Armand whose mother was black that was responsible for a black child.
Both these stories show the control that men have, and how poorly women are treated regardless of them being nurturing mothers. Their actions bring shame to their families and because of the role that families and patriarchal societies play, it is something the women cannot deal with. Women weren't allowed to be who they were or wanted to be, and if they were, they were shunned.
Both stories show a patriarchal rule, but in different ways. In both stories you can tell by the language that the man's word is law and that t he women have to follow the rules no matter what. In "No name woman", whenever the mother spoke of the aunt she always said do not tell your father, do not tell your father. The aunt was never to be spoken of and the father acted as if she didn't exists and it would have made him angry just by speaking her name. Also in the passage it says "Women in the old China did not choose." Meaning women had no choice because the man commanded them and they abided by their rules.
In "Desiree's Baby" you notice the patriarchal rule also. The man of the house was a slave owner who inherited his plantation from his father after he moved to France. He was cruel to his slaves but loved his wife. It says in the story how he loves his baby so much he even stopped beating his slaves. As the story progressed he the man became cold toward his wife. She noticed her baby was brown and went to the husband and was questioning their heritage. She called her mother and her mother told her to come home, when she went to the husband he said "it means that the child is not white, it means that you are not white." He commanded her and the baby to leave but it wasn't until after she was gone that he learned his true heritage. While burning Desiree's letters he stumbled upon his mother's letter and it said "night and day, I thank God for having so arranged our lives that our dear Armand will never know that his mother, who adores him, belongs to the race that is cursed with the brand of slavery." This shows that women were seen as and couldn't even get the benefit even though she was his wife and mother to his child.
Both stories show that patriarchal rule is strict and it limits the role women should play. They have to make sure the men are happy, and they do not get out of line. They were treated so poorly, and did not have a choice because men's word was law.
Both "No name Woman" and "Desiree's baby" show different cultures under patriarchal rule and the value of women in said social structures. In "No name Woman" though it is never specified whether the narrator’s aunt was raped or she consensually had sex with another man was irrelevant. The only thing that mattered was the fact that she was having a baby while her husband was away and that she shamed the family. She was treated as if she “never existed” being permanently shunned from the family and erased from its history. In “Desiree’s baby” it was the same case though it was made clearer that it wasn’t the woman who was part black but the man himself, though at the end of the day that also didn’t matter because women always got the short end of the stick. The cause of the conflict in both stories was brought on by a baby, the absolute rule of the patriarchs, and the undervalue of women that were seen as nothing more than an accessory to men as opposed to individual beings that brought something to the table. Edwin Mejia
Both stories are very similar in a sense i just thought that one was more so harsher than the next.
No name woman: "I wonder whether he masked himself when he joined the raid on her family."
"She told the man "I think I'm pregnant!' He organized the raid against her." Big conspiracy? Was this true that he was there the night of the raid? the story makes it so that your thinking, perhaps there was a bigger reason to this than we're missing. What if he did this all on purpose, getting her pregnant so he can get the community after her, and her family. If we reverse the story around, and this was a guy saying he got some woman pregnant this would have been a different story all together because they mention that "there is some hope of forgiveness for boys."
"I shall die. I must die. I cannot be so unhappy, and live." - from the letter Desiree sent to her mother.
Her husband was ignoring her, and was mad at her that the baby was colored. This made her very unhappy to their point she didnt think she could live any more. Luckily instead of a tragic ending for her, she left her husband to live with her mother. Although she didnt really want to leave, her husband told her to go and his coldness towards her made her final decision to leave.
Both families have different beliefs within their patriarchal traditions in the story “No Name Woman” begins with a talk-story,’ a lady no one ever knew. An aunt, the aunt had brought disgrace upon her family by having an illegitimate child out of wedlock. In paragraph three, “she could not have been pregnant, you see, because her husband had been gone for years” (1). This shows that Kingston’s aunt had an affair with someone and the result was her pregnancy. She ended up killing herself and her baby by jumping into the family well in China. After hearing the story, Kingston is not allowed to mention her aunt again it was a disgrace to his family and village. Not only was it a disgrace it was sinful in which the whole village believed she had brought evil and poverty. Basically why she has no name in this particular story. In Désirée’s baby it focused more about the ethnicity and race of the baby. Armand who was father and husband had abandoned his family due to the color of his child’s skin he was in disbelief and bashed his wife into believing that she acted in the sin of adultery which is the highlight of both stories. However Désirée had never committed adultery, Armand was actually not who he thought he was his whole life. He basically lived a life about who he was and had no idea. He was actually the one with the African blood and roots and not the wife, but instead he was the one mixed with both bloods.
In both short stories “No Name Woman” and “Desiree’s Baby” they both show patriarchies. They are both similar stories because in both stories it has to do with pregnant women or women with babies. They both result in the women suffering because of the men. In “No Name Woman” the mystery aunt committed suicide to end the shame that she caused the family. In “Desiree’s Baby” Desiree had to leave because she was accused of having African genes, and it turned out that she was not the one with the African genes, it was the man who had these genes. African genes were looked at as shameful. They considered it embarrassing and in one part they referred to African as "a race that is cursed with the brand of slavery."
Blog number 2 No name woman and Desiree's baby are two stories base on the experience of women in two different cultures but united by a patriarchal state of mind . The two stories are based in a pregnancy, in "no name woman " we learned that a girl that started to menstruated is told a story about an aunt that shamed her family by becoming pregnant of a man that she was not married with, she was outcasted by her family and her community and even as a gosht as described in the last paragraphs. The story is told to her because she must prevent making the same mistake proving that just because she is a woman she will be punished for such action and be outcasted even if it wasn't her fault, whereas men would not be punished as several as a woman. "To be a woman, to have a daughter in starvation time was a waste enought. My aunt could not have been the lone romantic who gave up everything for sex . Women in the old China did not choose. Some man had commanded her to lie with him and be his secret evil. I wonder whether he masked himself whe he joined the raid on her family. In this paragraph the author starts to brain storm about one of many explanations and life like experiences her aunt had to go thru, based on her culture and stories her mother used to " Mark her while growing up " " to have a daughter in starvation time was a waste enough " this expression is terrible as if there's no value in women because of the patriarchal way of life in China . The story of Dėsirėe's baby, Is a story of a woman that also became pregnant and that was also outcasted, but this time by her husband. Dėsirèe was abandoned as a baby an was adopted by a white Woman, her roots wore uncertain and specially during a time of slavery in Louisiana but she was welcomed into the arms of Madame Vamondė because she was not able to bare a child. Dėsirėe married to a man that felt in love at first sight with her and even thou he was warned about her unknown origins he married her and impregnated her. Dėsirėe's origins wore discovered when she gave birth to her son and the child developed, he became darker and darker reveling a color with the brand of slavery. Her husband who is a slave owner gives her the cold shoulder for many days and looses all her love for her because she gave birth to a black baby. Dėsirėe ashamed decides to to ask her husband if he waned her to leave and shows him a letter where Dėsirėe's mother ask her to go live with her so that she don't have to deal with her husband's mistreatment and shame.
" in silence he ran his cold eyes over the written words . He said nothing " shall I go, Armand?" She asked with suspense . "Yes ,go." "do you want me to go ?" "Yes I want you to go ." He thought the almighty God had dealt cruelly and unjustly with him; and felt ,somehow , that he was paying him back in kind when he stabbed thus into his wife's soul. More over he no longer loved her , because of the unconscious injury she had brought upon his home and his name. She turned away like one stunned by a blow , and walked slowly towards the door , hoping that he would call her back. "
In this short example we can appreciate how strong patriarchy is inculcated in this man , he blamed his wife for shaming him and his home , and Dėsirėe has no option than to leave the house she have no voice against the injustice and believes she is the one to blamed out of ignorance.
Men and women in this two stories are raised in a society of patriarchy , women suffer injustices and even thou they know is wrong to live under a society dome instead by man they do not speak up against it , instead they accept the destiny of being erroneously accused of shaming their family. Here one outcome was suicide and the other was to run away to live in shame.
In both stories No name Women and Desiree’s Baby are quite similar in the sense that women in certain cultures have to follow the expectations of the culture. If not you will get neglected and resented by your love ones, and also your family because the culture and the views of the culture you have to maintain. In No Name women in a traditional culture in china during the early 19th century’s women would get married young and devote themselves to that one man and stay with him and his family no longer for her family being responsible for her. In the story Desiree’s baby it was more different because Desiree actually had a chance to share love with a man she actually liked but he then later rejected her because she had his baby that did not have white skin color and in Desiree culture having whit skin color you would be more likeable. In the story Desiree’s’ baby Armand the father of her child is upset when he’s sees the baby for the first time and see the baby is not white “As white as La Blanche’s” he returned cruelly; and went away leaving her alone with their child” this quote shows that Desiree and her baby was rejected by a man she really cared about her and does not love her anymore because of the way he baby is.
No Name Women- To me is like a folk tale story parents tell to their daughters to scare them away from having sex and a child without being married and how cheating is the worst sin you can commit. It described how a father disowned his sister because she committed a sin that was irreparable. For years a family wouldn't even acknowledge they own kin do them being a disgrace to the family.
Desiree's Baby- similar to "No Name Woman" due to the fact the husband believe his wife cheated on him because of the complexion of the child skin and no longer could not be seen or give his wife the respect she deserved. He allowed what he felt others in his town would feel about him be his main reason for not wanting his wife.
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ReplyDeleteBoth families have different believes within their patriarchal traditions in No Name Women the father believed that his sister was a disgrace to the family not only because she was married and had a child out of wedlock but it was because is was a disgrace to his family and village and in Désirée’s baby Armand who was father and husband abandoned his family due to the color of his child’s skin he was in disbelief and bashed his wife into believing that she acted in the sin of adultery which is the highlight of both stories although Désirée never committed adultery Armand was actually not who he thought he was his whole life, he lived a life about who he was.
ReplyDeleteNo Name Women – by Maxine Hong Kingston
The daughter’s mother told her about her father’s sister before she died and what caused her to die, she told her about a gruesome story about his sister because her daughter was getting her menstrual cycle. She recalled about his family including the aunt and her new husband and how they all sailed to America, the Gold Mountain. It was their grandfathers last trip, at that time they had to get contracts to go and say bye. One day he saw his sister dressing and he seen she her stomach looked like other pregnant women. He couldn’t understand because her husband has been gone for years. The villagers visited them one night, and they slaughtered their animals and ripped through there home after the sister given birth. She and the baby were seen plugging up in the family well. The father went his whole life not once mentioning her sister, he never wanted to be looked down upon nor humiliated. But as the mother was informing her daughter about this information to compare it to her daughter she tried to make a point as to why she should not have sex in wed lock nor commit adultery.
Désirée’s Baby – by Kate Chopin
Désirée was the wife of Armand, she states, and “Marriage, and later birth of his son had soften Armand Aubigny’s imperious and exacting nature greatly.” This statement gives us a glance that Armand was happy for the baby until the baby became darker then both Désiré and Armand. Armand behavior changed, which she dared not to explain. When he spoke to her, it was with averted eyes, from which the old love-light seemed to have gone out. Armand ended up walking out on his family, he rather take dealings with the slaves. Armand was disgraced about the color of baby boy he couldn’t understand how his son could be so dark. He believed that his wife had committed the act of adultery because he couldn’t understand how his son was so dark. He did not even think to that he himself is also a dark man but his features where not resembled as (the enslaved slaves) in his mind.
---Shanelle Hunter
Both families have a different prospective about patriarchal traditions. In "No name women" the father believed that his sister is a disgrace to the whole family not only because she's married but she had a child out of wedlock so he believes she committed adultery and she was an embrassament to the whole village and in "Desiree Baby" Armand leaves his wife and son because his son's skin color was different. He beilved that his wife committed adultery which we can say flows well with both stories. In "Desiree Baby" Desiree is Armand wife and she says " Marriage, and later the birth of his son had soften Armand Aubigny's imperious and exacting nature greatly." Here we can tell that Armand was happy about the birth of his son but then Armand changed with wife because the baby became darker and he questioned why because he wasn't dark. But in the end he finds a letter that his mother wrote to his father and it say "Night and day, I thank the good god for having so arranged out lives that our dear Armand will never know that his mother, who adores him, belongs to the race that is cursed with the brand of slavery." This is something that Armand would imagine and now he knows we're he comes from and who he really is. As in "no name women" the mother explains to her daughter why her aunt can't be mention in there family and why she died and it was like she never was born or hear of. Now her daughter is starting to menstruate and warns here daughter that she shouldn't commit adultery or have sex out of wedlock because then she would be a disgrace to the family as well.
ReplyDeleteA tradition is no longer so, if it is not carried out or reinforced by the particular culture or family, and here, in both “Desiree’s baby” by Kate Chopin and “no name woman” by Maxine Hong Kingston, A patriarchal tradition is cemented into the lives of the participants in the story.
ReplyDeleteIn Chopin’s “Desiree’s baby”, the male superiority is blatantly obvious in the fact that, as abruptly as Armand Aubigny falls in love with Desiree, He, with the same haste and selfishness, decides to marry her without much care of her say in the matter. Although over the course of the short marriage she grew to love him, her state of mind was always swayed greatly by Armand, depicting a clear male dominance in the family. “when he frowned she trembled, but loved him. When he smiled, she asked not greater blessing of god.” (p14) This sort of patriarchy not only existed within them but was pretty common for even when Armand was reading his mother’s letter to his father, “she had been thanking god for the blessing of her husband’s love” (pg16), as to place her husband on a higher ground than her own being. And ofcourse Armand’s quick dismissal of desiree after realizing that she was not completely white, indicated the sole authority he held in the family.
Kingston in “no name woman” portrays the same idea of patriarchy through the depiction of the culture that defined the necessary decorum expected of everyone in the particular society, here, a very particular village in china where her ancestors lived. With the story of her aunt who had jumped in the well with the baby, Kingston shows of how much woman were ostracized if they acted out of accordance from the will of the patriarchal society. Through her conjectures on the proceedings of it, Kingston tries to give life to her dead aunt who had been condemned to having not existed at all, even within the family. “He denies her…You wouldn’t like to be forgotten as if you had never been born. The villagers are watchful.” This depicts the sort of cautionary life a female has to live not only during the time her aunt lived but also how it still perpetuates into kingston’s life.
Our families and culture gives us traditions and beliefs, which we in turn follow and behave accordingly to. And both “No Name Woman” by Maxine Hong Kingston and “Desiree’s Baby” by Kate Chopin, show us that in a society with Patriarchal Traditions women are often looked at differently and punished more severely for a “crime” they committed than that of a man, because men are looked at as the ones that are always “Right”. In “No Name Woman” by Maxine Hong Kingston we see a family who disowns one of its most loved members, “She may have been unusually beloved, the precious only daughter, spoiled and mirror gazing because of the affection the family lavished on her. When her husband left, they welcomed the chance to take her back from the in-laws; she could live like the daughter for just a while longer”. This statement alone tells us how much she was loved. But because of her becoming pregnant even though she had not seen her husband for years, the family disowns her without even getting the full story, they knew nothing of her circumstances and how she became pregnant and did not give her a chance to explain herself. All they were concerned with was the fact that she shamed the family, she disrespected the family. And this shows us that in a patriarchal society women are hardly given the chance for “forgiveness” as men are.
ReplyDeleteAlso in ““Desiree’s Baby” by Kate Chopin, we see how Patriarchal traditions shape the mindset of the younger generations. We see that Armand is in love with his wife and loves his baby boy; but as the baby started to get darker as he got older Armand fell out of love with his wife. ‘ “It means,” he answered lightly, “ that the child is not white; it means that you are not white” ’ Armand grew up with one mentality about Africans and when he saw that his child was beginning to become like them he quickly fell out of love for his wife and blamed her. And as we later find out his own mom was African and that is why his child was turning darker; but he had blamed his wife and sent her away. In both these stories we see that women born into a Patriarchal Society, where men think they are always right and women should always reply with “Yes, Sir” attitudes, are easily second class citizens and are rarely given first class treatment.
In the short stories “No Name Woman” and “Desiree” both of the females generate a conflict due to the birth a child. In both short stories the mother is at fault. The deviousness of the men who passes on their own faults to the women. Even though the women could of stand up for themselves and prove otherwise, they stood loyal to the men to the every end. In "No Name Woman" the child is the result of adultery. Which brought humiliation to everyone in the family. In "Desiree's Baby" the baby, carried African genes, which was known to be the most shameful thing to everyone.
ReplyDeleteIn "No Name Woman" the narrator's aunt had sexual relations, she doesn’t tell anyone whether it was consensual or not, with someone other then her husband. Her husband was working and she became pregnant while he was away. She never tells anyone how she became pregnant, even after the villagers destroy the family’s property. Her aunt committed suicide to end all misery for her family and to protect the mystery man.
In “Desiree Baby”, the mother Desiree was dropped off on a doorstep when she was very young. Her son was born with African descents and she was told she had to be the carrier of African genes, since her background is unknown. Her husband Armand made her vanish because she will bring shame to his family. His reputation was important to him and having a half black child would be a disgrace. Once Desiree disappeared, her husband found out he was the one with the African genes.
Patriarchies are in both short stories. Because of the men in the story the women are defeated and even though they suffered they stood devoted till the every end.
In "Desiree's Baby" Desiree's child was born with African blood, Armand (who was part African but didn't know at the time) had a problem because he felt that she kind of in a way betrayed him because he was under the impression that Desiree was White. He Kicked her and her child out because he knew that the community would have judged him for having a child who is part African. This story bearers of patriarchal traditions because, the man of the family decided just because the baby isn't one hundred percent white they was no longer any good to him.
ReplyDeleteIn "No Name Women" In China during when the story was taken place, it was shameful to have a child out of wedlock so, the no name women killed herself and baby because they felt such shame from the village she lived in. As the mother tells the story of the no name women, she's tells her that that she is called the no named women because what she did, made her to believe that she ever existed. This short story shows that family and culture plays a big part in the patriarchal traditions because if you bring shame the "man" you can no longer be apart of the family anymore because they would disown you.
In both stories you see the patriarchal side of the men which puts you in shock and disbelief of the way they handle situations within their families. But I agree with what you were saying i got the same concept from both stories.
DeleteIn both texts, they explore the patriarchal views of society in their time. The importance of your culture, family and growth is rather important. In No name woman, the aunt brought shame to the family because of her actions and with that was punished and she in turn committed suicide. The village looked on this act as sinful and disgraceful in which they believed she had brought the evil and poverty to the village.
ReplyDeleteIn Desiree's Baby, this focused on the race and ethnicity of the child. The husband who was once happy started to resent not only his wife but his child as well. For him, them not being considered of royalty and pure blood was a shame and disgrace. However, in the end of all this, the husband had no idea he was the one with the African blood and roots and not the wife, but instead he was the one mixed with both bloods.
Both stories are similar in the way in which they expose the patriarchal form of governing in a society. Teaching us that what the men think of a woman has a greater value and a lot more weight than the woman's actions. In other words, women don't have any room to be themselves or simply just to be. Kingston's story, "No Name Woman" shows how harshly women are judged not only by men but by other women as well. In the story, this only leads to the suicide of the aunt who was humiliated, shamed and blamed for every bad thing that happened in the village. Suggesting that if a woman does not follow the rules established by men, then she becomes a disgrace, a curse for her own self.
ReplyDeleteIn Chopin's story, the same principles are reflected, only that they now imply that a woman's sexuality has a lot more value than her honest actions. In addition to that, if a woman is to betray or be disloyal to her husband not only is she ruining her reputation but polluting her husband's honor which is a lot more important than the cause of the betrayal. Here, the feelings a woman has are unimportant and the judgments are still as cruel. Both stories show the dehumanizing ways in which women are judged, but at the same time the ways in which they are expected to live.
These two stories both shared some similarities of patriarchy, and the way things are handled within families/communities in relation to the acts a woman takes. In "No Name Woman", the aunt seemed committed to the marriage strayed from her husband and gave birth to another man's child. She committed suicide/homicide because of the shame that was brought on to her by her village. In this culture, women are sold like property to other families which signifies the position women hold in a patriarchy. They hold little to no position because if they deviate in any way from being a traditional woman of that culture, they are punished and forever shamed.
ReplyDeleteIn the story "Desiree's Baby", a similar concept follows. A couple that is in love give birth to a child and because of that culture, where black people were considered slaves, the father/husband disowned the child and wife that he first fell in love with. He didn't want to shame his name with a child who "belongs to a race
that is cursed with the brand of slavery." His wife disappeared with the child because of the shame she felt, but like the aunt in "No Name Woman" she would not leave her baby. In the end it was not Desiree who was at fault for a black child, it was Armand whose mother was black that was responsible for a black child.
Both these stories show the control that men have, and how poorly women are treated regardless of them being nurturing mothers. Their actions bring shame to their families and because of the role that families and patriarchal societies play, it is something the women cannot deal with. Women weren't allowed to be who they were or wanted to be, and if they were, they were shunned.
Both stories show a patriarchal rule, but in different ways. In both stories you can tell by the language that the man's word is law and that t he women have to follow the rules no matter what. In "No name woman", whenever the mother spoke of the aunt she always said do not tell your father, do not tell your father. The aunt was never to be spoken of and the father acted as if she didn't exists and it would have made him angry just by speaking her name. Also in the passage it says "Women in the old China did not choose." Meaning women had no choice because the man commanded them and they abided by their rules.
ReplyDeleteIn "Desiree's Baby" you notice the patriarchal rule also. The man of the house was a slave owner who inherited his plantation from his father after he moved to France. He was cruel to his slaves but loved his wife. It says in the story how he loves his baby so much he even stopped beating his slaves. As the story progressed he the man became cold toward his wife. She noticed her baby was brown and went to the husband and was questioning their heritage. She called her mother and her mother told her to come home, when she went to the husband he said "it means that the child is not white, it means that you are not white." He commanded her and the baby to leave but it wasn't until after she was gone that he learned his true heritage. While burning Desiree's letters he stumbled upon his mother's letter and it said "night and day, I thank God for having so arranged our lives that our dear Armand will never know that his mother, who adores him, belongs to the race that is cursed with the brand of slavery." This shows that women were seen as and couldn't even get the benefit even though she was his wife and mother to his child.
Both stories show that patriarchal rule is strict and it limits the role women should play. They have to make sure the men are happy, and they do not get out of line. They were treated so poorly, and did not have a choice because men's word was law.
Rosalyn Blair
I thought the stories were a bit similar, but good response. Made me see the two stories in a different light.
DeleteBoth "No name Woman" and "Desiree's baby" show different cultures under patriarchal rule and the value of women in said social structures. In "No name Woman" though it is never specified whether the narrator’s aunt was raped or she consensually had sex with another man was irrelevant. The only thing that mattered was the fact that she was having a baby while her husband was away and that she shamed the family. She was treated as if she “never existed” being permanently shunned from the family and erased from its history. In “Desiree’s baby” it was the same case though it was made clearer that it wasn’t the woman who was part black but the man himself, though at the end of the day that also didn’t matter because women always got the short end of the stick. The cause of the conflict in both stories was brought on by a baby, the absolute rule of the patriarchs, and the undervalue of women that were seen as nothing more than an accessory to men as opposed to individual beings that brought something to the table.
ReplyDeleteEdwin Mejia
Both stories are very similar in a sense i just thought that one was more so harsher than the next.
ReplyDeleteNo name woman:
"I wonder whether he masked himself when he joined the raid on her family."
"She told the man "I think I'm pregnant!' He organized the raid against her."
Big conspiracy? Was this true that he was there the night of the raid? the story makes it so that your thinking, perhaps there was a bigger reason to this than we're missing. What if he did this all on purpose, getting her pregnant so he can get the community after her, and her family. If we reverse the story around, and this was a guy saying he got some woman pregnant this would have been a different story all together because they mention that "there is some hope of forgiveness for boys."
"I shall die. I must die. I cannot be so unhappy, and live." - from the letter Desiree sent to her mother.
Her husband was ignoring her, and was mad at her that the baby was colored. This made her very unhappy to their point she didnt think she could live any more. Luckily instead of a tragic ending for her, she left her husband to live with her mother. Although she didnt really want to leave, her husband told her to go and his coldness towards her made her final decision to leave.
Both families have different beliefs within their patriarchal traditions in the story “No Name Woman” begins with a talk-story,’ a lady no one ever knew. An aunt, the aunt had brought disgrace upon her family by having an illegitimate child out of wedlock. In paragraph three, “she could not have been pregnant, you see, because her husband had been gone for years” (1). This shows that Kingston’s aunt had an affair with someone and the result was her pregnancy. She ended up killing herself and her baby by jumping into the family well in China. After hearing the story, Kingston is not allowed to mention her aunt again it was a disgrace to his family and village. Not only was it a disgrace it was sinful in which the whole village believed she had brought evil and poverty. Basically why she has no name in this particular story. In Désirée’s baby it focused more about the ethnicity and race of the baby. Armand who was father and husband had abandoned his family due to the color of his child’s skin he was in disbelief and bashed his wife into believing that she acted in the sin of adultery which is the highlight of both stories. However Désirée had never committed adultery, Armand was actually not who he thought he was his whole life. He basically lived a life about who he was and had no idea. He was actually the one with the African blood and roots and not the wife, but instead he was the one mixed with both bloods.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteIn both short stories “No Name Woman” and “Desiree’s Baby” they both show patriarchies. They are both similar stories because in both stories it has to do with pregnant women or women with babies. They both result in the women suffering because of the men. In “No Name Woman” the mystery aunt committed suicide to end the shame that she caused the family. In “Desiree’s Baby” Desiree had to leave because she was accused of having African genes, and it turned out that she was not the one with the African genes, it was the man who had these genes. African genes were looked at as shameful. They considered it embarrassing and in one part they referred to African as "a race that is cursed with the brand of slavery."
Blog number 2
ReplyDeleteNo name woman and Desiree's baby are two stories base on the experience of women in two different cultures but united by a patriarchal state of mind . The two stories are based in a pregnancy, in "no name woman " we learned that a girl that started to menstruated is told a story about an aunt that shamed her family by becoming pregnant of a man that she was not married with, she was outcasted by her family and her community and even as a gosht as described in the last paragraphs. The story is told to her because she must prevent making the same mistake proving that just because she is a woman she will be punished for such action and be outcasted even if it wasn't her fault, whereas men would not be punished as several as a woman.
"To be a woman, to have a daughter in starvation time was a waste enought. My aunt could not have been the lone romantic who gave up everything for sex . Women in the old China did not choose. Some man had commanded her to lie with him and be his secret evil. I wonder whether he masked himself whe he joined the raid on her family.
In this paragraph the author starts to brain storm about one of many explanations and life like experiences her aunt had to go thru, based on her culture and stories her mother used to " Mark her while growing up "
" to have a daughter in starvation time was a waste enough " this expression is terrible as if there's no value in women because of the patriarchal way of life in China .
The story of Dėsirėe's baby, Is a story of a woman that also became pregnant and that was also outcasted, but this time by her husband. Dėsirèe was abandoned as a baby an was adopted by a white Woman, her roots wore uncertain and specially during a time of slavery in Louisiana but she was welcomed into the arms of Madame Vamondė because she was not able to bare a child. Dėsirėe married to a man that felt in love at first sight with her and even thou he was warned about her unknown origins he married her and impregnated her. Dėsirėe's origins wore discovered when she gave birth to her son and the child developed, he became darker and darker reveling a color with the brand of slavery. Her husband who is a slave owner gives her the cold shoulder for many days and looses all her love for her because she gave birth to a black baby. Dėsirėe ashamed decides to to ask her husband if he waned her to leave and shows him a letter where Dėsirėe's mother ask her to go live with her so that she don't have to deal with her husband's mistreatment and shame.
" in silence he ran his cold eyes over the written words . He said nothing " shall I go, Armand?" She asked with suspense .
"Yes ,go."
"do you want me to go ?"
"Yes I want you to go ."
He thought the almighty God had dealt cruelly and unjustly with him; and felt ,somehow , that he was paying him back in kind when he stabbed thus into his wife's soul. More over he no longer loved her , because of the unconscious injury she had brought upon his home and his name.
She turned away like one stunned by a blow , and walked slowly towards the door , hoping that he would call her back. "
In this short example we can appreciate how strong patriarchy is inculcated in this man , he blamed his wife for shaming him and his home , and Dėsirėe has no option than to leave the house she have no voice against the injustice and believes she is the one to blamed out of ignorance.
Men and women in this two stories are raised in a society of patriarchy , women suffer injustices and even thou they know is wrong to live under a society dome instead by man they do not speak up against it , instead they accept the destiny of being erroneously accused of shaming their family. Here one outcome was suicide and the other was to run away to live in shame.
ReplyDeleteIn both stories No name Women and Desiree’s Baby are quite similar in the sense that women in certain cultures have to follow the expectations of the culture. If not you will get neglected and resented by your love ones, and also your family because the culture and the views of the culture you have to maintain. In No Name women in a traditional culture in china during the early 19th century’s women would get married young and devote themselves to that one man and stay with him and his family no longer for her family being responsible for her. In the story Desiree’s baby it was more different because Desiree actually had a chance to share love with a man she actually liked but he then later rejected her because she had his baby that did not have white skin color and in Desiree culture having whit skin color you would be more likeable. In the story Desiree’s’ baby Armand the father of her child is upset when he’s sees the baby for the first time and see the baby is not white “As white as La Blanche’s” he returned cruelly; and went away leaving her alone with their child” this quote shows that Desiree and her baby was rejected by a man she really cared about her and does not love her anymore because of the way he baby is.
No Name Women-
ReplyDeleteTo me is like a folk tale story parents tell to their daughters to scare them away from having sex and a child without being married and how cheating is the worst sin you can commit. It described how a father disowned his sister because she committed a sin that was irreparable. For years a family wouldn't even acknowledge they own kin do them being a disgrace to the family.
Desiree's Baby-
similar to "No Name Woman" due to the fact the husband believe his wife cheated on him because of the complexion of the child skin and no longer could not be seen or give his wife the respect she deserved. He allowed what he felt others in his town would feel about him be his main reason for not wanting his wife.